Despite challenges, Minnesota\u2019s top election official is \u2018an optimist\u2019 heading into November | CyberScoop<\/title> <meta name=\"description\" content=\"Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon spoke with CyberScoop about election security, funding fights with Congress and how to tackle disinformation.\"> <link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november\/\"> <meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\"> <meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\"> <meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Despite challenges, Minnesota\u2019s top election official is \u2018an optimist\u2019 heading into November\"> <meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon spoke with CyberScoop about election security, funding fights with Congress and how to tackle disinformation.\"> <meta property=\"og:url\" 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class=\"single-article content\">\n<div class=\"single-article__container js-single-article-content\">\n<header class=\"single-article__header \">\n<div class=\"single-article__header-content\">\n<ul class=\"single-article__eyebrow\">\n<li class=\"single-article__category\"> <a class=\"single-article__category-link\" href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/news\/election-security\/\"> <span>Election Security<\/span> <\/a> <\/li>\n<\/ul><\/div>\n<div class=\"single-article__cover-wrap\">\n<figure class=\"single-article__cover\"> <img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" fetchpriority=\"high\" width=\"640\" height=\"427\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ddi.mohflo.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november.jpg?resize=640%2C427&ssl=1\" class=\"single-article__cover-image wp-post-image\" alt decoding=\"async\" fetchpriority=\"high\" 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https:\/\/ddi.mohflo.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november-2.jpg?resize=1264,843 1264w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1012px) 100vw, 1012px\"><figcaption> Minnesota Secretary of State Steve Simon testifies during a Senate Rules and Administration Committee hearing titled “AI and The Future of Our Elections” on Capitol Hill September 27, 2023 in Washington, DC. (Photo by Drew Angerer\/Getty Images) <\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<\/header>\n<div class=\"single-article__content\">\n<div class=\"single-article__content-inner has-drop-cap\"> <html readability=\"156.08317449885\"><body readability=\"313.08935387132\"><\/p>\n<p>Steve Simon has served as Minnesota\u2019s 22nd Secretary of State since 2015, overseeing elections across 87 counties and managing the state\u2019s voter registration database. His tenure has spanned three presidential election cycles, including in 2016, when the Russian government waged a covert campaign to interfere with U.S. election infrastructure, and in 2020, when false claims of election fraud by outgoing President Donald Trump and allies fed a wave of suspicion, paranoia and threats of violence toward election officials. <\/p>\n<p>More recently, as the advent of generative AI tools have made it easier for bad actors to create false or synthetic media about elections, Minnesota was one of the first states to incorporate the threat <a href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/ai-election-wokers-training-deepfakes\/\">into statewide tabletop trainings and exercises<\/a>. <\/p>\n<p>In July, Simon, a member of the Minnesota Democratic Farmer Labor Party, was named president of the National Association of Secretaries of State, succeeding Scott Schwab, Kansas\u2019s Republican secretary of state. <\/p>\n<p>CyberScoop spoke with Simon about the state of U.S. election security in 2020, what\u2019s top of mind for him and other state election officials, funding tussles with Congress and how his office approaches mis- and disinformation about voting from foreign and domestic actors. <\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>The transcript has been lightly edited for clarity. <\/p>\n<p><strong>CyberScoop: We are 48 days or so out from election day. What is top of mind for you from n security or integrity standpoint? Where are you spending most of your time and energy?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Steve Simon:<\/strong> I\u2019ve often said throughout this election cycle, what I wish for between now and election day is two things: high turnout and low drama. I\u2019m pretty confident about the high turnout part, certainly for our state; we typically lead the nation in turnout.<\/p>\n<p>The low drama part, I\u2019m less sure about. There\u2019s a security dimension to making sure we have low drama. There are multiple types of security: cybersecurity, physical security and then a different kind of security that has to do with confidence in the system itself. It\u2019s a security issue in the sense that there\u2019s a point at which, at the extremes, people who lack confidence in the system <a href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/picketed-at-work-confronted-at-church-why-election-workers-have-left-the-job\/\">could act out<\/a> in really harmful and potentially violent ways and we don\u2019t want that.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re really focusing on the low drama part and there\u2019s multiple dimensions to that.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p><strong>You were recently named president of the National Association of Secretaries of State. How does that affect or influence the way you talk about things like election security, when you\u2019re at times speaking not just for yourself or your own office, but also trying to represent 49 other states?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I try to be very careful about that. I never want to seem like I\u2019m speaking for another secretary or another state, except to say that Americans generally should really feel confident. We have an excellent group of secretaries of state in both political parties who both want essentially the same thing: for voters to have accurate information and access to voting.<\/p>\n<p>They want an orderly election and that\u2019s what we\u2019re all shooting for. I\u2019m focused day to day on my own state in Minnesota, but conscious of the fact that given the position, I need to be careful about seeming to speak, when I don\u2019t need to, for other secretaries.<\/p>\n<p><strong>AI has been a very hot topic this past year, particularly as things like deepfakes get better, more realistic and easier to use. At the same time, we\u2019ve seen these technologies deployed in other democratic elections this year and there\u2019s not much evidence right now indicating that they\u2019re having a measurable impact swinging election results. What do you see as a realistic scenario that your state or others could face from these technologies over the final stretch run of the election, or perhaps beyond election day? What can you do about it?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A few things occurred to me. I agree with your assessment \u2014 I would just add that we have a recent high-profile precedent which is actually a cause for optimism, and that is, during the NH primary, on the Democratic side <a href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/biden-new-hampshire-robo-call-deepfake\/\">there was the fake Biden AI robocall<\/a>.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>The good news is it was detected, and it was detected early. I think my counterpart [New Hampshire Secretary of State David Scanlan] did a great job, as did [Attorney General John Formella]. They also did a good job of not overplaying it to spread a false message.<\/p>\n<p>Identify, isolate, and call out that kind of disinformation. That approach actually gives me hope. Surprisingly, secretaries of state have talked a lot with one another about the topic. There\u2019s been a lot of cooperation and collaboration up, down and sideways, whether it\u2019s our office\u2019s partnership with the federal government, with the Department of Homeland Security, with CISA and with counties, cities and towns here, so that we\u2019re all on alert for these kind of things.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll also say I don\u2019t see AI as a new threat in and of itself. I see it as a new way to amplify or magnify existing, longstanding threats. Election disinformation goes back not just years but centuries, but now with AI, there are means to spread it more quickly, with means that appear more authentic, and that\u2019s what we need to focus on. I think the high-profile examples in this country have provided a map for how to deal with that challenge. Still, it\u2019s hard to predict how that will play out.<\/p>\n<p>Minnesota is one of the states that have enacted laws aimed at trying to overcome the challenge of AI and deepfakes in election contexts. I don\u2019t know of any instances yet where the law has been triggered or used. We now have <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sos.state.mn.us\/media\/5626\/deep-fake-overview.pdf\">a law in Minnesota<\/a> saying that within 90 days of an election, it\u2019s now unlawful to use an AI deepfake if it\u2019s done without the permission of the depicted person and for the purpose of influencing the outcome of an election.<\/p>\n<p>That second prong is meant to insulate clearly protected free speech like comedy or satire. If Saturday Night Live does a deepfake sketch of Kamala Harris and Donald Trump, obviously that\u2019s not triggering this law. It\u2019s meant for the Biden robocall situation. To my knowledge, it hasn\u2019t been triggered yet so that\u2019s a good thing, but we still have six weeks to go.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>I do think we have a pretty good template based on the New Hampshire situation on just how to handle it in a practical manner.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Earlier this year, congressional Republicans voted for an appropriations bill that <a href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/house-republicans-propose-eliminating-funding-for-election-security\/\">would eliminate<\/a> federal HAVA grant funding that states have used for decades to fund election security and administration. Are groups like NASS engaging with the Hill on the need for additional funding, what have those conversations been like and do you think you\u2019re making any progress with skeptics?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Many individual secretaries are involved, including me, in making sure that we have not only additional funding but reliable funding.<\/p>\n<p>Speaking for myself, as you know there have been outlays, periodic outlays in the last few years, which we\u2019re really grateful for. They are unpredictable bursts, and they don\u2019t come at reliable intervals, and so when we get this money, we don\u2019t know whether we\u2019re supposed to make it last one year, three years or 10 years, because we don\u2019t know when the next one is coming.<\/p>\n<p>What tends to happen is we tend to save it, because we\u2019re sort of hoping for the best but planning for the worst, which is that we won\u2019t get another burst of funding for a while. But that has the effect of showing up on a ledger of states sitting on a bunch of HAVA money. So the attitude in Congress is, why should we give more money when they\u2019re sitting on that money? The reason some of us still have fund balances is these are people\u2019s livelihoods. We have people in our office who are funded entirely by this money and we don\u2019t know if the next one is coming next year or 10 years, so we\u2019re operating cautiously.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>That\u2019s the central challenge here. So if Congress said, \u201cHey, every five years or three years or 10 years, you\u2019re going to get another burst of HAVA money,\u201d we could meter it out. But since we don\u2019t, we\u2019re erring on the side of cautiousness. I don\u2019t blame legislators for having that impulse, but I\u2019m hopeful that over time, members of Congress from both parties will understand this from our point of view.<\/p>\n<p>Because if we spend it all, we can get the number to zero where it looks good on a spreadsheet, but we\u2019re running a real risk of laying people off. And it\u2019s not worth the risk, so we\u2019ll take the security over the appearance issue of still having money on the bottom line.<\/p>\n<p><strong>One of the products of the increased partnerships between states and the federal government has been a concerted effort to grant security clearances. Can you talk about how your office has made use of that this election cycle and what value add that gives you in terms of fulfilling your election security mission?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>I think it\u2019s been a game changer. I will speak broadly. When DHS in January of 2017 designated election systems as critical infrastructure, that really was a game changer. We joined other sectors at that point, including hospitals, military bases, the water sector, and other core sectors of American life in enjoying those protections.<\/p>\n<p>One of those things we got was the opportunity to have a select small number of people in our office get secret security clearances and get regular classified intelligence briefings about the threat environment. And that has been so helpful, speaking for myself and my office, for understanding what the threats are, how worried we should be or not. And it\u2019s helped us to make decisions internally about how to deploy money, people and resources.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>We get some sensitive information, which we obviously can\u2019t share, but that has really helped. It\u2019s a limited number of people in each office who get that clearance, and in fact we have a classified briefing coming up next week, and it\u2019s been really a great benefit, really useful as we\u2019re doing our planning.<\/p>\n<p>I can confirm at least what\u2019s been publicly reported, which [is that] there are active influence operations going on. I want to make a distinction that the reporting has been that these are influence operations, not election interference operations of the kind we did see in 2016. This isn\u2019t foreign government attempting to actually infiltrate election infrastructure. This is online, this is social media. Recently the Justice Department announced charges against one or more Russian nationals who had <a href=\"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/doj-russia-interfering-us-elections-2024\/\">paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to influencers<\/a> to get certain lines of argument out in the American political bloodstream. That\u2019s an influence campaign; it\u2019s meant to color Americans\u2019 views.<\/p>\n<p>What we\u2019re trying to do is limit ourselves to election-related mis- and disinformation. don\u2019t endorse candidates for any level of office, and we don\u2019t ever weigh in on who people should vote for. For us, it\u2019s about disinformation that has to do with the election system.<\/p>\n<p>Our philosophy, our policy is if we see mis- or disinformation about elections, whether intentional or not, whether it has foreign origins or not, we seek to confront it and correct it. We\u2019re kind of agnostic about the source. What matters is, are there myths or lies about elections out there? I think for us it\u2019s about just counteracting mis- and disinformation, whatever the source.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Election officials have to deal with campaigns by foreign governments to interfere with or influence the election process, but it\u2019s no secret that they also have to grapple with domestic actors, sometimes even elected officials, or parties, or campaigns, who engage in similar tactics. How do you balance the responsibility to push back on things like domestic disinformation and insider threats when the people carrying it out are Americans?<\/strong><\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>That becomes more difficult, because it\u2019s very important for us to be totally nonpolitical and nonpartisan, and once in a while there\u2019s an actor who will say something that\u2019s off about the system. Not an opinion, just something that\u2019s not true.<\/p>\n<p>Of our responsibilities in our office here\u2019s one thing: we don\u2019t count votes. That\u2019s done at cities and counties and towns. We aggregate and post vote totals. You can easily find on social media people in political spaces suggesting that I and my colleagues across the country are secretly, with our mystery algorithms, seeking to boost the vote totals for candidates we like and take away votes from candidates we don\u2019t like. We don\u2019t even have the ability to do anything like that.<\/p>\n<p>Other examples include folks who suggest or allege that election equipment is changing votes from candidate A to candidate B. For a lot of reasons, we know that\u2019s false in Minnesota. That gets frustrating but we need to call that out. Be transparent, explain to people \u2014 not just those spreading this mis- and disinformation but people at large \u2014 the practices we have in this state to know that\u2019s not true. But it is a challenge.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Experts have expressed worries that levels of division and anger are so high this election season that there is a very real threat of post-election violence. Can you talk about what, if anything, your state is doing to plan for that eventuality?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>A few things. First of all, we learned a lot from 2020. Not just in Minnesota, everybody. We know what to be on alert for.<\/p>\n<div class=\"ad ad--inline_1 \">\n<div class=\"ad__inner\"> <span class=\"screen-reader-text\">Advertisement<\/span> <\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>There\u2019s obviously Jan. 6, and things like alternative electors, but there is also Dec. 17 [when members of the electoral college in all states gather to vote for the next president and vice president]. We have our state canvassing board, where we certify the election in Minnesota. I can\u2019t control what happens in Washington D.C., but we have an eye towards security for all those events, just to make sure that we don\u2019t have a repeat of what we saw in other places in 2020.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ll have the electors come in to cast their electoral votes and we just want to make sure that we\u2019re doing our best to attend to security. So we\u2019re already having security discussions about that day.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Any parting thoughts?<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>The only thing I would say is I really remain mostly an optimist. The glass is more half full than empty. We learned so much from 2020 and we\u2019re in a better position now to meet the moment, an even better position than 2020.<\/p>\n<p>That was the time of COVID and a lot of other stuff going on. We don\u2019t have that distraction this time, and we\u2019ve learned from experience. So I\u2019m optimistic we can have those two things, high turnout and low drama. We need to work at it but I\u2019m mostly optimistic.<\/p>\n<p><\/body> <\/p>\n<footer class=\"single-article__footer\" readability=\"3.6236162361624\">\n<div class=\"author-card\" readability=\"13\">\n<div class=\"author-card__avatar\">\n<figure class=\"author-card__image-wrap\"> <img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"author-card__image\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/ddi.mohflo.net\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/09\/despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november-1.jpg?w=640&ssl=1\" alt=\"Derek B. Johnson\"> <\/figure>\n<\/p><\/div>\n<p><h4 class=\"author-card__name\">Written by Derek B. Johnson<\/h4>\n<p> Derek B. Johnson is a reporter at CyberScoop, where his beat includes cybersecurity, elections and the federal government. Prior to that, he has provided award-winning coverage of cybersecurity news across the public and private sectors for various publications since 2017. 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{"id":5372,"date":"2024-09-19T05:00:00","date_gmt":"2024-09-19T10:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/cyberscoop.com\/?p=81807"},"modified":"2024-09-19T05:00:00","modified_gmt":"2024-09-19T10:00:00","slug":"despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/ddi.mohflo.net\/index.php\/2024\/09\/19\/despite-challenges-minnesotas-top-election-official-is-an-optimist-heading-into-november\/","title":{"rendered":"Despite challenges, Minnesota\u2019s top election official is \u2018an optimist\u2019 heading into November"},"content":{"rendered":"